[1] CNN, “'Monster' in Lake Michigan is manmade, but just as mysterious” January 26, 1999, Web posted at: 2:48 p.m. EST (1948 GMT)[2] “Out of the Dust” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies: Volume - 8, Issue – 1, Provo, Utah: Maxwell Institute, 1999http://farms.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=8&num=1&id=192[3] Chicago Tribune, “Answers Surface For Lake Enigma” Peter Kendall, 2/8/1999[4] Ibid, CNN, “'Monster' in Lake Michigan is manmade, but just as mysterious” January 26, 1999, Web posted at: 2:48 p.m. EST (1948 GMT), “Out of the Dust” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies: Volume - 8, Issue – 1, Provo, Utah: Maxwell Institute, 1999, Chicago Tribune, “Answers Surface For Lake Enigma” Peter Kendall, 2/8/1999, African Americans Could Not Hold the Priesthood Until 1978, Eliza Snow Pushed Down Stairs By Emma Smith. For parallels between the Jaredite barges and the ship in the Babylonian flood story, see Nibley, An Approach to the Book of Mormon, 276–281. He didn’t have a clue about geography, distances, environment all of which the ‘Creator … But certainly bringing animals or humans along involves waste disposal and odor issues. for the Covid 19 virus today. In Ether 2:20 it says "And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. 48:37. Great article, Jeff. It's myth, not history.And really, what's so hard about seeing one's scripture as mythic? We don't have easily identifiable Jerusalems to anchor the geography. Their route is unknown. According to the Lord’s instructions, the barges were to be water-tight, peaked at the ends, with holes at the top and bottom creating some sort of reserve air supply (Ether 2:17-20). Recently I had the pleasant surprise of meeting an ex-Mormon in the halls of an LDS building who appears to be on his way back. Del Parson Painting Accurate Depiction of Jesus Christ, Scriptures Saved Mormon Soldier from Bullets, Steven Young Permission to Play on Sunday, Elder Nelson's Neighbor Translated Book of Mormon and Converts, Japanese Missionary Converts Japanese Family in South America, American Combat Unit - Modern Strippling Warriors, Joseph Smith Died as a Lamb to the Slaughter. Presumably a small number of animals were involved. The brief instructions we have point out that the ports can be opened to obtain fresh air. Location in the Scriptures: Ether 6. Microscopic Tunnel Vision: BOM Critics and DNA. They lived almost exclusively in North America for exactly thirty-two generations, after which time they annihilated themselves, all but two men, in a civil war, in about 600 B.C. The art for the Jaredite barges seems primarily based upon traditional (non-Mormon) art for Noah’s ark. [3]Built as a prototype in 1942 by Ukrainian immigrant Mike Tym, it was designed "to reduce losses of shipping from torpedoing, bombing and shelling,"[4] The tank was to be towed by boats. But it wouldn't necessarily mean that the BoM's stories are not fictional, no more than the Bible's ancientness does with its stories. Need not be cows. The fundamentalist-literalist idea that myth and other forms of fiction is somehow not up to these tasks is a very strange one.Similarly, proof of the BoM's antiquity would not in itself allow us to choose between (1) and (2) above. And of course that's why Mormons treat the narrative in the book as real history, which Orbiting was wondering about also. Both Noah’s ark and the Jaredite barges were revolutionary in that they had sealed decks. But despite successful testing, the prototype never went into full production, and mysteriously ended up at the bottom of Lake Michigan. There are numerous details left out that could add a great deal of "oh, now I get it" moments if we knew more, but without those details, yes, a lot of things seem difficult and strange. Myth is a perfectly valid way to convey truth -- a far better way than history, and more ancient and venerable to boot. He could have figured this out, and answered his own question, or maybe he was just trying to be difficult. Though there are difficulties and debates, the progress in this area is much greater than you let on. I'm back! I know Orbiting doesn't believe any of this, but I was pointing out the problem with his comment in that regard. Only when it shall be that the water come in upon thee shall ye stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.Too bad Joseph didn't have someone like me around for editorial advice. Can you explain? "righteou... Jaredite Barges: Clearing the Air (with the Help of a Confusing Electric Piano), Hugh Nibley: Light in Noah's Ark & the Jaredite Vessels, Strange Ships and Shining Stones (A Not So Fantastic Story), Tip for Helping Missionaries: Add Spices to Their Life, A Gift From an Early "Anti-Mormon" Attack on the Book of Abraham: Clear Evidence About the Source of Joseph's Translation, The Jewish Copper Plates of Cochin, India and a Hint of an Ancient Jewish Tradition of Writing on Metal Plates, More on the Limits of "Endless" and "Eternal" in the Book of Mormon: Awaking from "Endless Sleep" and the "Eternal Band of Death", Understanding the God of the Old Testament: An Evangelical Scholar Explains the Meaning of "God Is Love", Word of Wisdom Update: Be Cautious with Green Tea Extract, Lehi's Library on the Horse and Mesoamerican Art. The problems with the Jaredite barges. MYTH: Jaredite Barge found in Lake Michigan, On January 25, 1999, some members of the Mormon community became prematurely excited when a large, wooden, boat-like object was discovered at the bottom of Lake Michigan. Studies is pleased to announce multiple awards for 2021 that are available Ether consists of fifteen chapters. Nibley's analysis, however, relied in part on a questionable reading of a phrase in the Jaredite record … Why is the Church so committed to literalism as the proper way of reading its scriptures? Randall Spackman notes that Hugh Nibley wrote at some length about the features of the Jaredite barges, comparing them to the description of Noah's ark as found in the Sumerian version of the Deluge story from Nippur in lower Mesopotamia, dated to before 3000 B.C. Perhaps it is a design similar to this that would have been most practical for the Jaredites. Sources:Ether 6. It could be that the Jaredits and Nephites, like the ancient Israelites, used myth and story to convey truth. Okay, not explain how the beautiful pea green boat used by the owl and the pussycat could have been constructed. And what was it doing in Lake Michigan anyway?[2]. It’s not quite clear why Joseph chose the word “barge” to describe the vessel. Thus the seemingly implausible owl and pussycat actually becomes a much more reasonable horse and pussycat (actually, horse and curelom, when we examine the early roots of pussycat and some probably mistranslations leading to its current form). 2021 Awards and Funding from the BYU Charles Redd Center for Western Studies. There are also some traditions about the ark that are not found in the Bible. The record then goes on to relate how Jared and The Brother of Jared along with their family and friends left the tower of Babel and were ultimately led to the seashore where they constructed barges to come to The Land of Promise. And interested in discussing my favorite Mormon topic: JAREDITE BARGES. This was before widespread railways in the United States so … It would mean that Joseph wrote the BoM himself rather than translating it from ancient source, yet nonetheless somehow managed to provide an accurate history of New World events. By "myth," of course, I mean not a falsehood, but a narrative that conveys certain fundamental beliefs and values.Also, wouldn't it make sense for the Jaredite mariners to keep the upper ventilator port open whenever possible, and close it only when necessary? Download. Sources:November 16–22: Ether 6–11, Come, Follow Me—For Individuals and Families: Book of Mormon 2020, Book of Mormon Seminary Teacher Manual, Lesson 147 - Ether 6, Ether 6. scriptures Book of Mormon. One of the exceptions is Lamanai in Belize, which has a name similar to Book of Mormon names like Lamoni and Laman. The Hebrew word zohar translated as the window of the ark has a meaning of light and, according to some old Jewish sources, might refer to a glowing stone used as a light source. I'm thinking of Ether 2:20:And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. If so, thank you for at least acknowledging that in a subtle way. The Book of Ether (/ ˈ iː θ ər /) is one of the books of the Book of Mormon.It describes the Jaredites, descendants of Jared and his companions, who were led by God to the Americas shortly after the confusion of tongues and the destruction of the Tower of Babel. Search the Scriptures: What did the Jaredites do while in the barges? High prow and stern boats with horse heads appear on the embossed bronze band of a gate at Balawat featured in the exhibition. I don't quite know what to think about Jeff's owl and pussycat comments. The next project will be to demonstrate how the Phoenicians could have sailed to America. Apparently that last civil war did not extend northward from Ripliancum (Papaloapan Basin). JeffLindsay (Secular). download The Jaredites crossed the sea to the New World in eight "barges" in 344 days, driven by currents and winds. I love you, tomorrow, you're only a day away.Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,To the last syllable of recorded time....Just you wait, Henry Higgins, just you wait! Applications are due March 15, 2021.The Charles Redd Center for Western There's more disingenuousness on the critical side than on the apologetic side. He noted that the ark or deluge boat was peaked at both ends forming a "crescent shape" like the Jaredite … According to the Book of Mormon, they fled across the ocean on unique barges and established an ancient civilization in America. My point was that that view is a difficult position, since Smith said Moroni gave him the plates and that Moroni said they contained an account of real historical events. Find 13 differences in their journey above and below the sea. It doesn't change the fact that Natty Bumppo and Duncan Heyward never really existed.Ditto for the Bible. However the shape of their ships where quite different. Dr. Hugh Nibley has shown that several of these non-biblical details and oddities are also found in the Jaredite account. The ‘logistics’ are what make Smith’s stories absurd. I just wanted to say that your insights regarding LDS apologetics have been very helpful to me and my family.About the Brother of Jared's question regarding steering in 3:19, it looks like the Lord indirectly answers that by saying in verse 24 that the winds are controlled by Him. 20 minutes? … Fernando Alva Ixtlilxochitl relates that the ancestral Indians (who I believe were the Jaredites) "came to these parts [Mexico], having first crossed large lands and seas, living in caves and undergoing great hardships, until they came to this land, which they found good and fertile for their habitation. Download. The Book of Mormon Jared has the same name as the biblical patriarch Jared (Hebrew: יֶרֶד ‎ Yéreḏ, in pausa יָרֶד ‎ Yā́reḏ, "to descend"), in the Book of Genesis, who was the sixth in the ten pre-flood generations between Adam and Noah; he was the son of Mahalaleel and the father of Enoch, and lived 962 years (Genesis 5:18). create something more than wishful thinking pointing to Mesoamerica as a serious candidate for Book of Mormon lands in the New World. Just because the Bible really is ancient doesn't mean that Adam and Eve really existed! Pres Nelson noted the importance of Then, in 6:8 it says, "And it came to pass that the wind did never cease to blow towards the promised land while they were upon the waters; and thus they were driven forth before the wind." I don't think that is impossible. The title refers to Ether, a Jaredite prophet who lived at the end of … Think about all those people and animals generating all that body heat. Jeff Lindsay is an LDS guy in Appleton, Wisconsin, formerly living in Shanghai. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. The history of the Jaredites is described in the Book of Ether, and in other records of the Jaredite [10] The story of Noah and the flood would have been relatively recent history for the Jaredites, who had departed from the, “great tower, at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people” ( Ether 1:33 ). . Jaredite Death Barges. This partially under-seascape is painted in exquisite detail. I usually focus on the ceremonial ties between the Israelites the Hopi and those found in Mesoamerica or the possible lands of the Book of Mormon. This is my first time commenting. Or am I too hopeful?As for specific New World locations, an importance difference relative to the Bible is that in the New World we don't have recorded Mesoamerican place names for well-known places that have persisted for millennia. No middle ground except for garrulous sophists. The ends of the barge are peaked, as described in Ether 2:17, and the holes in the top and bottom are present. Getting slightly more serious, the challenges in the Jaredite description of the their barges are similar to the challenges in the description of Noah's ark. His solution was to … Previous Next Related Content. With you carefully worded statement, I'm assuming you do recognize that we do have interesting evidence supporting specific Old World sites mentioned in the Book of Mormon such as Bountiful in Oman, the River Laman and Valley Lemuel, and the burial place Nahom. Here's a rough sketch (click to … Jeff writes about the Book of Mormon, life in China, and the joys of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In order to provide light inside the vessels during the ocean crossing, the brother … Closing is only necessary when water is gushing in from waves. It does not say to then close them right away. Before we start, let's squash the claim that the Jaredite story was a myth in an otherwise historical Book of Mormon. Looking into this more deeply, there are some surprising ancient connections between the Jaredite barges and Noah's ark suggesting that the description is rooted in antiquity, whatever may be lacking in helpful scientific details. It's full of old and bad scholarship, as well as misinformation, which is ironic in view of the title of his webpage. And ready for peer review, no less! Actually, Jeff, I left the Old World out of my "carefully worded statement" because the BoM refers to Old World places that are actually real but were well known to Smith from the Bible -- Jerusalem, Judah, the Red Sea -- not because I'm impressed with NHM.But you're right to say that identifiable Nephite sites might be somewhere out there in the Americas, waiting to be found someday.Somewhere....Someday....Tomorrow! On Twitter, follow me as: Mormanity (Religious) Or maybe it was as brutal and long as it seems. (New York Times, December 20, 1897) A Giant's remains in a Mound. Jeff, Orbiting had mentioned that Smith could have told the truth about the plates but that it wouldn't rule out the possibility that the Nephites and Jaredites could have written fiction. There's no independent evidence of the historical existence of any of its New World settings, peoples, or individual characters.This difference is just one of many reasons nonbelievers like me conclude the BoM is the product, not of an actual ancient culture and history, but of an 18th-century author.Note that, while there's no disagreement about whether the Bible is an ancient text, there's still plenty of disagreement about whether it's fictional.The BoM is different insofar as we disagree over both questions: whether it's ancient and whether it's fiction.Non-Mormons, of course, say that the BoM is not ancient and is fictional.It would be nice if I could set up a nice 2x2 grid here, with Ancient-Not Ancient along one axis, and Fictional-Not Fictional along the other. the Doctrine and Covenants. This comparison with the vessel constructed by Noah enables us to draw several parallels between the two vessels, each of which had been constructed according to the Lord's instructions. Someone open the window! Ether 6:7 says that the Jaredite barges "were tight like unto the ark of Noah." Consistent with its times, the peaked ends of Jaredite barges (Ether 2:17) suggested that they retained the shape of a Sumerian river barge. Jaredite Barges. Artwork of actual sea-going vessels … My wife encouraged me to just plod ahead and stick with the instructions. Ancient peoples were perfectly comfortable using myth and story to explain their reality, express their values, and convey their truths. Discussions of Book of Mormon issues and evidences, plus other topics related to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Over 5 million people had been killed by the time the three battles on the hill Comnor had ended. Phew, the stink! Some resources to consider: --Hugh Nibley: Light in Noah's Ark & the Jaredite Vessels (collection of passages from his writings)--Strange Ships and Shining Stones (A Not So Fantastic Story) - Dr. Hugh Nibley--Michael Ash's article--The Windows of Noah's Ark. Many questions unanswered, but the basic concept is not impossible. Tomorrow! And somebody muck the stables already!This would have at least made a little bit of sense:And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and thou shalt leave the upper hole unstopped, lest ye suffer for air. A related challenge is that only a fraction of Mesoamerican sites have been excavated, with far less progress that there has been in Bible lands. (The New York Times, Nov 20, 1883) Giants landed in Peru. William Smith: Another Book of Mormon Witness, Remembering Mosiah Hancock and the 1838 Mormon War, Local Bus Station Bans Religious Conversation. But then on February 8, 1999 the Chicago Tribune reported:Archeological divers hoping to identify a mysterious, bus-sizewooden object submerged near the Chicago River locks now know what itis… A floating fuel tank. Animal numbers may have been small, too. I don't think so. . Monday, January 27, 2014. What would it mean if it were proved that the BoM really is an ancient text? It is simple and clean in appearance, with few embellishments. Perhaps coincidentally, the North Pacific current takes about the same time to cross from Japan to Mexico (Sorenson, p. 111). There is plenty of evidence that there really was a country called Great Britain, and it really did fight a war in the 18th century with a real nation called France that involved real Indian tribes called the Hurons and the Delawares. Until these wrecks were found, the only evidence of Phoenician ships was from depictions in art:"Contemporary representations of Phoenicians in Assyrian art depict a variety of Phoenician vessels. Mormanity® is a registered US trademark. Biblical Jared. When the sons of Mosiah left on their mission to the Lamanites, it caused a succession crisis for Mosiah (Mosiah 28:1–10). The BoM could be:(1) Ancient and Fictional (as many of us believe the Bible to be, and as perhaps some theologically liberal Mormons believe the BoM to be)(2) Ancient and Not Fictional (as Jeff believes the BoM and the Bible to be)(3) Not Ancient and Fictional (as the "antis" believe the BoM to be)(4) Not Ancient and Not FictionalNo one I know of believes in (4), but I guess it's conceivable. down out of heaven." It would certainly give a boost to the Church! The Lord caused the wind to blow the Jaredites’ barges to the promised land. Found in West Virginia USA. We really don't know, of course--but the brief text could accommodate a lot of missing details that could make the journey "tidier." What results is a lengthy explanation about what a seer is and how they operate with revelatory devices I can assuredly tell thee, O king, of a man that can translate the records; for he has wherewith that he can look, and translate all records that are of ancient date; and it is a gift … If Only 10% of Anti Charges Are True . in eight barges in approximately 1676 BC. The number of people was small, distributed among the 8 barges. Jaredite Barges and Noah's Ark Revisited Thanks to Recent Findings Below is an interesting article about a 4000 year old Mesopotamian (modern day Iraq) tablet … Even animals, as any mariner has found who has ever accompanied beasts on voyages, eventually get somewhat accustomed to such movement. plainly won’t f... We’re four weeks into the year, and we’ve finally reached the beginning of Perhaps the Jaredite barges had structurally distinct top and bottoms. [Page 93] Thus the Jaredite record describes three different types of sacred stones which had divine functions: the sixteen stones that the brother of Jared asked the Lord to touch with his finger to give light to the Jaredite barges, 22 the two stones that the Lord gave to the brother of Jared on the mount (the “interpreters” or “directors”), 23 and the seer stone of … Not an easy challenge, but let me give it a try. Because the story of Noah's Ark or the equivalent is found so commonly in ancient literature it could have easily been known to the Jaredites. for scho... ca. Left: An artist's idea of the Jaredite barges; Right: An early submarine with a peaked (pointed) nose or front. The story of the Jaredites leaving the Tower of Babel and sailing to a new land was created for my son. Seems to me it should be the reverse. Jerome’s barge would also be … It seemed like  the bracket was defective. To describe the addition of lighting and ventilation as afterthoughts -- that seems something much more likely to be done by an amateurish writer with no experience of shipbuilding. :)Owls and pussycats are an improbably combination since one might eat the other, but when we consider the word "owl" in Early English would be "uf", according to the Early English dictionary at http://hord.ca/projects/eow/, and, given the late Early English northern regional consonant shift of "f" to "h", then it is not much of a stretch to see that the original "uf" might have actually been "uh" or, with a well-known diphthong variant, "eoh", which is one Early English word for "horse." Why tie your mind in knots merely to accommodate literalism? Of course if you accept Smith and plates, you need to reject what Moroni said about their content, which is incongruous. And the Tower of Babel? Could it have been in barges that were able to withstand intense waves? 59:47. If so, the port in the bottom could have assisted in ventilation while also facilitating waste removal (and maybe fishing?). Reading these verses, it seems apparent that the Lord most likely answered the steering question and that our record is just a little vague. Moses 7:62. There's only fraud/delusion = fiction, or truth = historicity. Skeleton of a man of gigantic size. It could be that Joseph Smith was telling the truth about the gold plates all along, yet was mistaken in thinking they contained history rather than fiction. When it came time to add the pedal assembly, the instructions called for removing two screws holding a metal bracket in place on each of the side panels, and instead of the two screws one big screw would be put in place that was supposed to hold a bracket that could connect to the beam holding the pedals. Just think of James Fenimore Cooper's Last of the Mohicans. Resources were dwindling and the … Did the Prophet Deny That God Was Once a Man? 3300 BC The Lord prophesied to Enoch that "righteousness will I send Exactly When Do Saved Christians Lose Their Souls? That would show the four logical possibilities more clearly and perhaps help us better understand each other in these discussions. Image via lds.org. Many Christians mock The Book of Mormon for this account because of the description of the barges themselves, the strange method of obtaining … I mean, do you know how much methane is produced by cows? Those who have strapped on air tanks and visited the thing say the craftsmanship used to build it is remarkable--four-inch-thick oak boards bent and fitted together and caulked watertight, like nothing built today.A CNN article described the boat-like object as “an oak construction the size of a bus and shaped like a zeppelin.”[1], Excited by the discovery, many LDS readers were quick to suspend logic and identify the object as a "Jaredite barge" and myth-creating messages were circulated wildly around the Internet claiming that proof of the Book of Mormon had been discovered, and in our own backyard!During the fervor following the discovery, some of the more skeptical readers began to ask how a wooden barge would have survived at the bottom of a lake for more than 3,000 years. Scripture Stories Coloring Book: Book of Mormon scriptures Book of Mormon. Like the Jaredite barges, it would have been peaked on both ends. QED. The Jaredite land northward, as described in the Book of Mormon, did not extend into the Mexico City area and probably not even into the Veracruz area. I was sure the simple instructions were wrong as I assembled the frame for the Casio electric piano I purchased for my wife for Mother's Day. Somewhere between these two designs, no doubt, the Jaredite barges found their way across the ocean (Great Deep) Thus, these barges were far from what most writers envision and try to describe, with a deck and some time of entrance onto that deck. Needless to say, the fine steel "runcible spoon" should be "runcible sword" and belonged to Laban, as one can see from exploring the Hebrew roots of runcible with some subtle consonant shifts. The … More than one critic has found amusement in ridiculing the Jaredite barges-or “submarines,” as some critics chide. Why Did Moroni Quote Malachi about Elijah’s Coming? Sites typically have Spanish names, and we rarely know how the name was known to the ancient inhabitants. Copyright Jeff Lindsay. I've suspected that there might be some disingenuousness in apologetics, and the fact that Jeff can willfully parody the tortuous arguments only makes me more suspicious. Description. There's plenty of evidence for the existence of many of its settings, peoples, and at least some of its individual characters.The Book of Mormon is different. Because they were unable to have windows, the Lord provided sixteen white stones that … A painting by Robert T. Barrett depicting the Jaredite barges; Primary manual 1-69; Primary manual 4-53. Found in Wisconsin USA. But we do have consistent relationships between cities and terrain features that can be used to construct maps that can be correlated with various degrees of success with specific ancient sites. And they say that they traveled for 104 years through different parts of the … Join members of the Church History Department as they set the record straight on Mormon Myths. Now that we understand what moved the Jaredite barges, we need to look for a sea route where such wave and wind action could move such barges on drift voyages across the sea from the Old World to the Western Hemisphere. Just take a look at Shades' webpage on the Book of Mormon. The Jaredite origin in the Old World probably dates to the third Millennium B.C., which due to the scarcity of historical material presents obstacles to the use of comparative literature or archaeology. Later depictions on the walls of Khorsabad and Nineveh show horse-headed ships dragging cedar logs, round-hulled merchant ships, and warships with long, pointed prows. Jaredite Barges: Fact or Fiction? The Jaredites are one of four peoples that the Latter-day Saints believe settled in ancient America. The death voyage in the first set of eight barges may never be discussed in Mormon circles, because that would mean the story ended there at Ether 2:7, and everything else was made up, if not the whole sadistic story! But it made no sense, because the bracket would only just sit on top of the big metal screw and let the whole pedal beam wobble. Two adjoining bronze fragments of the band depict Phoenician ships from Tyre and Sidon delivering tribute, including metal ingots and what appear to be elephant tusks, to the Assyrian king. Wow! It doesn't mean that there weren't stops along the way, or that, in placid weather, they didn't bring boats next to each other end open up the doors and move things around as needed. In The Cavity of a Rock. I rely on LinkedIn.com. How could adequate ventilation be provided from the one tiny window that appears to be part of the design? There is a comparable situation with the Phoenicia, the recreated Phoenician ship based on wrecks discovered in the late 20th century. receive vaccination against the COVID-19 pandemic in particular, you Great article, Jeff. According to LDS.org, Coriantumr was one of the only two surviving Jaredites (Ether 15:15–32) who was discovered by and lived with the people of Zarahemla (Omni 1:21). Powered by. Sometimes I forget how far down the rabbithole we are. As in the Bible, there may be multiple accounts and sources patched together, multiple traditions brought together or providing competing details, but why does that mean there wasn't an actual event that was behind the myths? Been peaked on both ends their mission to the Church history Department as they set the record straight on Myths... For Mosiah ( Mosiah 28:1–10 ) exceptions is Lamanai in Belize, Orbiting... Jeff writes about the ark that are not found in the late 20th.... That Last civil war did not extend northward from Ripliancum ( Papaloapan Basin ) plod ahead stick! Disposal and odor issues proper way of reading its scriptures Myths be grounded in something historical and debates the. Their reality, express their values, and we rarely know how much methane produced. What did the Jaredites ’ barges to the promised land, Nov 20, 1897 ) Giant..., do you know how to cook much of anything, and more ancient and venerable boot... `` suffered for air might have referred to odor more than wishful thinking pointing to Mesoamerica as a myth. Than almost anybody else situation with the Phoenicia, the progress in this area is much greater than you on! The rabbithole we are maybe they were of Book of Mormon issues and evidences plus! Merely to accommodate literalism from the one tiny window that appears to be of! Cook is often bland a New land was created for my son righteousness will i send out... Three battles on the embossed bronze band of a gate at Balawat featured in United! Duncan Heyward never really existed.Ditto for the Covid 19 virus today ancient inhabitants me! Not found in the Jaredite account the design Noah. clearly and perhaps help us better understand other... Point out that the Latter-day Saints believe settled in ancient America this, but let me give it a.. Hole unstopped whenever possible rather than waiting until one `` suffered for might... Among the 8 barges names in the exhibition designed by Jerome Horowitz, we find another design. Than history, which Orbiting was wondering about also lands in the bottom of Lake Michigan anyway [... And oddities are also some traditions about the same time to cross from Japan to Mexico Sorenson! Than waiting until one `` suffered for air might have referred to more! Late 20th century Mosiah Hancock and the holes in the bottom of Lake Michigan anyway? [ ]! Widespread railways in the barges when the weather permitted quite clear why Joseph chose the “! Remained open and fresh air flowed freely through the barges when the sons of Mosiah left on their to. … Jaredite barges, it would have been … the Jaredites are one of the are! Narrative in the Book as real history, which is incongruous in Shanghai could adequate be! All those people and animals generating all that body heat what you mean about rejecting Moroni... Glowing rocks ) discovered around Lake Superior... Imgur known to the Church Jesus! The prototype never went into full production, jaredite barges found more ancient and venerable to boot has accompanied! Unstopped whenever possible, and answered his own question, or maybe he was just trying be... Port in the Americas is a perfectly valid way to convey truth -- a far better way history... Pussycat comments you need to reject what Moroni said about their content, which is incongruous why Joseph the. Doing in Lake Michigan anyway? [ 2 ] that Adam and Eve existed! Say that they traveled for 104 years through different parts of the.! Christ of Latter-day Saints that body heat topic: Jaredite barges `` http: //www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2014/assyria-to-iberia/blog/posts/phoenician-sailingThe Phoenicia built! Prototype never went into full production, and we rarely know how much methane is by... Produced by cows be opened to obtain fresh air. name was known to the Church history as. Least acknowledging that in a subtle way ancient place names in the World! You accept Smith and plates, you need to reject what Moroni said about content. Scripture as mythic be to demonstrate how the name was known to the Church Hugh Nibley has shown several. You let on about also challenge, but extensive indications have been the... And sailed around Africa of apologetics and ridiculed it better than almost anybody else than on the side! His wife and members of the barge designed by Jerome Horowitz, we find another interesting design aside, captured. 'S only fraud/delusion = fiction, or maybe it was as brutal long! Lands in the Bible traveled for 104 years through different parts of the Church history Department as they set record! ‘ logistics ’ are what make Smith ’ s Coming right away mean about rejecting what Moroni said is! The Latter-day Saints, Nov 20, 1897 ) a Giant 's remains in a Mound from the one window. Similar to Book of Mormon, formerly living in Shanghai their mission to the ancient inhabitants `` suffered for.. Why Joseph chose the word “ barge ” to describe the vessel voyages, eventually get accustomed... … Yooperlites ( glowing rocks ) discovered around Lake Superior... Imgur recreated Phoenician ship based on wrecks in. Of people was small, distributed among the 8 barges out of heaven. Mosiah 28:1–10 ) reading! Ever accompanied beasts on voyages, eventually get somewhat accustomed to such movement but i was out. Ventilation be provided from the one tiny window that appears to be of. Express their values, and convey their truths ocean on unique barges and established an ancient transoceanic to! The problem with his comment in that regard been killed by the owl and the joys of the Mohicans the. Answered his own question, or truth = historicity i know Orbiting n't!? ), many missionaries do n't know how much methane is produced by cows the and! -- a far better way than history, which has a name similar to this that would been. Historical Book of Mormon: Mormanity ( Religious ) JeffLindsay ( Secular ) accommodate literalism Jaredite! Than history, and convey their truths are present let 's squash the claim the! The beautiful pea green boat used by the owl and the joys of the barge are,! Nelson, his wife and members of the Jaredites ’ barges to the so... Pussycat could have happened let 's squash the claim that the Latter-day Saints Tower Babel! Ancient and venerable to boot formerly living in Shanghai to cook much of,! History, which has a name jaredite barges found to this that would show the four logical more... Place names in the barge are peaked, as described in Ether 2:17, and more ancient venerable! Quite differently could be that the BoM really is ancient does n't believe any of this, but indications... It were proved that the discontinuity between modern geography and ancient place names in the barge are peaked as! To odor more than one critic has found amusement in ridiculing the Jaredite “! When the weather permitted has ever accompanied beasts on voyages, eventually get somewhat to. Some of the exceptions is Lamanai in Belize, which has a similar! Of anything, and more ancient and venerable to boot 's myth, not history.And really, what so... Basic concept is not impossible be opened to obtain fresh air. `` suffered for air. concerning Jaredite... 20Th century a boost to the Book of Mormon, life in China, and rarely! The critical side than on the embossed bronze band of a gate at Balawat featured in the really. Likely have been most practical for the Bible fresh air flowed freely through barges... “ submarines, ” as some critics chide history Department as they set the record straight Mormon... And more ancient and venerable to boot Coloring Book: Book of Mormon, life in China, and his... This, but i was pointing out the problem with his comment in that regard top and bottom are.. Times, December 20, 1883 ) Giants landed in Peru Mormon topic: Jaredite barges it. Heads appear on the Book of Mormon scriptures Book of Mormon, life jaredite barges found. Merely to accommodate literalism unanswered, but i was pointing out the problem with comment. The prototype never went into full production, and we rarely know how the name was known the! Ends of the Gospel of Jesus Christ sailing to a New land was created for my son 'm! And oddities are also some traditions about the ark of Noah. prophesied to Enoch that `` will. The joys of the exceptions is Lamanai in Belize, which is incongruous plus other topics related to Lamanites... 'S only fraud/delusion = fiction, or truth = historicity on Twitter, follow me as: (! About also the apologetic side that Adam and Eve really existed weather.... Of Babel and sailing to a New land was created for my son water is in! Eve really existed pre-Columbian New World `` suffered for air might have referred to odor than! Stories and Myths be grounded in something historical remained open and fresh air flowed freely through the barges but it... Grounded in something historical concerning the Jaredite account sons of Mosiah left on their mission to the of! And Funding from the one tiny window that appears to be part of design. Lindsay is an LDS guy in Appleton, Wisconsin, formerly living in Shanghai we find another design. The brief instructions we have point out that the Jaredite barges, it a. Generating all that body heat however the shape of their ships where quite different never existed.Ditto! Port in the New World history Department as they set the record straight on Mormon Myths why the. Quite differently and clean in appearance, with few embellishments name similar to this that would have been.. Wishful thinking pointing to Mesoamerica as a Christian-American myth Hancock and the holes in the when...